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Post by fiurulez on Sept 20, 2006 15:39:41 GMT -5
Wasn't my original point that Sweethingyer was overcoming a troubled past? Then you say, "what difficult past?", and I proceed to list the 'past'. I mean just because you're not old enough to know the history of the city in which you live, don't blame me. Yes, I think going down 107th is not a very good idea. I think it chops through a small community and will have to dead-end at FIU. While going further out west will pick up the mall traffic and as you come south down the turnpike you can more easily head into the heart of Kendall. But once again, instead of arguing symantics, why don't you explain to us why it is such a good idea to come down 107th. One good reason: It's easier for students to get to both the main campus and engineering campus. Another one: I don't claim to be an expert but won't all that concrete mess with the National Hurricane center's equipment? I think this one is good too: FIU shouldn't have to spend more money in building a shuttle program when the rail can stop at their front door A line would not necessarily hurt Sweethingyer. Nor would it help it for sure, but it'll do one thing, make it easier for residents to get from one place to another. Other than being ugly, what harm could it do? The troubled past you refer to, even if I were to accept your version of it (which I have yet to find info to support your drug/shooting stories and it only flooded twice a while back), what does it matter, there are many years between the building of the rail and those events (plenty of time to get over it). Besides, other cities have had it worse. I live in the city, and I support the rail. You don’t and you want it to be more convenient for you. Either way we both have our objectives. There’s already a Mall on the current rail, how bout we add a community who could use it and a University? As for Kendall, they have Dadeland station AT LEAST. We have nothing. This is my last reply on this subject, it’s getting old. Good luck to you and I wish you the best in all your Metrorail goals.
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Post by Steve on Sept 20, 2006 21:19:44 GMT -5
Here are a couple points I raised at the meeting about sending the line down 107th....
If you go to the Dadeland stations, those parking lots are ALWAYS full during work days. When Dadeland South overfills, the cars all go to Dadeland North. When Dadeland North overfills, those cars go to the mall parking for Dadeland Station as well as Dadeland Mall. The same can be said for other overfilled transit related parking structures too. At FIU, the station is planned almost right on top of the current bus terminal. The parking for the station would be the entire parking lot between the school of music and the current bus terminal converted to a parking garage. Additionally, the lot that is in front of the new fraternity houses would become a new parking garage as well. All of this for transit parking. Not only would the greek housing become a cavern sandwiched between metrorail and two massive parking structures, but it also dramatically reduces the land to build more fraternity houses by shrinking the lot sizes. This was seen on the map and was confirmed by one of the project consultants when we discussed it after the meeting.
Since parking is already at a premium on campus, if we have these two parking garages dedicated toward transit parking, where will that overflow go then? the only logical option is to overflow into FIU student and faculty parking. Many residents will gladly accept a $10 parking ticket that they don't even really have to pay since they are not students for a chance to park close.
In addition to this, the parking lot next to the school of music is unsafe now. Students keep instruments worth sometimes as much as $3000-$5000 in their cars because of lack of storage space in the WPAC building. Cars are broken into frequently in that lot. This is just with FIU students parking in that lot. If that lot is turned into a lot for transit, then we are looking at a very large population of people with nothing to do with FIU parking around and near cars that may contain expensive instruments in them. If security of that lot is a problem now, if there is a metrorail station within eyeshot, it pains me to even consider what problems would occurr.
If the station is on 117th, then the parking garages would overflow into the park. There, the county can ticket as they please and those tickets would actually mean something. While yes, a circulator would need to be extended to the station, I think the benefits extremely outweigh the losses. There are other benefits as well though.
Generally when building these lines, at the stations they include land for joint development. If FIU were to jump on that, it would provide an opportunity to build dorms as part of a joint development project. This means that the building would be an FIU building in Tamiami Park. If you can do the project as a joint development with the district court of appeals, you could include offices for the courts on the first floor and make a good 5 story dorm for only graduate law students. The benefit of making these students live in the same building as real lawyers, clerks, and judges work is almost immeasurable. This is just one option since there is a district court of appeals there at present. Other possibilities are also there.
As for putting this line down 107th, all you would pick up is a station off flagler. The revinue generated by putting the station at the Engineering Center is not that much. As I heard tonight at the meeting, the city commission for the city of sweethingyer doesn't want it there, the residents of the fontainbleu area (North of flagler) don't really want it there either.
The city of sweethingyer worked with FIU to create a "Transit Greenway" proposal that links the two campuses via a pedestrian friendly corridore. It includes not only pedestrian walkways, but also makes provisions for a light-rail or streetcar system linking the two campuses. I feel that this would better serve both sweethingyer as well as FIU. I mean imagine if we could get something that circled the campus in a loop and then went to the engineering center! FIU pays a quarter the cost, Sweethingyer pays a quarter the cost, FDOT pickes up the other half since it is a project that would better alleviate traffic on the busy 107th avenue. FIU gains not only a rail connection between campuses, but a circulator. Include the possibility of expanding it to the new metrorail station on 117th or 107th and you have the makings of a line that would generate some great income and be effective to both sweethingyer and the FIU community as a whole.
I guess the summary is that the line going down 107 is not the best alternative. Let it go down 117 and then think of something different for 107th. There are much better, more feasable options out there.
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Post by FIUFan on Sept 21, 2006 7:58:15 GMT -5
Great report Steve. Thanks.
What might be nice one day is a light rail/greenway connecting the Engineering School with the main campus and then also connecting to the 'discussed' station in the SW corner of Tamiami Park.
And to fiurulz; I guess you're fighting an uphill battle from here.
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Post by Steve on Sept 21, 2006 9:20:59 GMT -5
The original report that was created jointly with FIU and the city of Sweethingyer covered everything from just a mere pedestrian friendly walkway, implementation of a circulator, and the full build option being a light-rail alternative.
Its actually funny, I was talking with a couple friends the other day and we were talking about how FIU would be different if we had a light rail circulator that went around the campus. One thing that was pretty interesting is they said "If it cost between 25 cents and 50 cents per ride, with parking the way it is, I would ride that thing everywhere on campus" another point was "If the stations are in the right places, on bad weather days, I would ride that just to go between here (The WPAC) and Grahm Center". This really got me thinking.
There is clearly not room for a full two-way system on campus. But a one way loop is deffinately feasable. This type of thing could easily tie into the sweethingyer plan as well. As long as there is a two way entrance to the campus for the line, the campus could essentially become one big turnaround point!
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Post by TrueBlue on Sept 21, 2006 11:25:08 GMT -5
The question is where would it go? One of the newly-elected SGA representatives has the same plan more or less but the recurring question is where would it go?
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Post by Steve on Sept 21, 2006 14:51:06 GMT -5
The way I see it, it would loop around campus and then follow the alignment proposed in the joint FIU/City of Sweethingyer transit greenway plan and connect the main campus with the engineering campus... let me find this plan and make a few pics and I will show you what I mean... this could take a while...
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Post by Steve on Sept 21, 2006 16:02:16 GMT -5
ok, the city of sweethingyer/FIU joint study can be found at www.co.miami-dade.fl.us/mpo/docs/MPO_107av_greenways_200312.pdfit is a 109 page article outlining possible transit improvements in the city of sweethingyer incorperating FIU as a major piece of the overal project. Essentially it is a document about improving the connections between the two campuses and thus improving sweethingyer as a result. The document does come short in the whole "What happens when the train gets on the UP campus" question though. In the document, there are 3 basic proposals made: 1) Transit Greenway - pedestrian friendly sidewalks and no real car or mass transit infrastructure (this is generally referred to as a no-build option) 2) Dedicated bus lanes - also referred to as Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) and is the minimal build option 3) light rail - this is a streetcar system and is usually referred to as the maximum build or locally preferred alternative. The main question that was asked was where would it go on campus? This is just something I drew up quickly using my Google Earth and MS Paint skills. Basically, the line would come in through the 109th avenue entrance. It could then turn either left or right. The direction of the loop really wouldn't matter since it would ride on its own right-of-way and not in the street (any times in this image where it does do so is because its hard to draw with a trackball in MS paint and I am by no means an artist of that nature). Assuming it turns counterclockwise (right turn if coming into campus), the stops would be as follows: 1. ECS- Serves the Parking Garage, ECS Building, OE, and CP buildings as well as wertheim conservatory and Library. 2. CAS- Serves the ZEB, College of Business, Library, Central Utilities (need to think of University personelle as well as students) 3. Parking- (ok, don't remember what garage that is) This stop would serve the intramural feilds as well as the parking garage. In the future it will alse serve the housing that is slated to be built where that parking lot is to the east. 4. Pharmed Arena- Serves College of Law, Graduate School of Business, Pharmed Arena, Recreation Center, Health and Wellness Center, and several other buildings nearby 5. FIU Stadium- Serves Panther Hall and the stadium 6. Housing- serves Everglades Hall, Lakeview Housing, the new classrooms building on the master plan, the parking garage where the current student housing lot is 7. Fine Arts- Serves WPAC, Frost Art Museum, and the parking garage (The campus master plan puts a circle with a fountain in it roughly at this spot... could be a really nice station!) 8. Parking and Greek Housing- Would serve both parking and greek housing... this one is what I would consider and optional one since it really does not serve the greek housing much, unless it eventually is expanded to encompass the surface parking between the parking garage and where current greek housing sits. I would say this should be the first station cut in the event of budget cuts on this project though. 9. GC- Serves Parking Garage, GC, PC, MERC, and DM. 10. Apartments- Serves the apartments, Health and life sciences buildings, and eventual Microbiology expansion as well as CP and a couple other buildings still not constructed yet. 11. Parking- serves the yet to be constructed parking garage, CP and roughly the same stations on the first stop. The first and last stations could be consolidated into a station somewhere in the 109th avenue entrance, lowering costs pretty well. Overall, the beauty of doing this loop is when there are major events in any building on campus, you can park pretty much anywhere and hop on a circulating train. Such events as Football games, Concerts, Conventions, and other major events really take up parking. If we provide a means to better get around on campus, then we can better facilitate these things. There is also the standpoint of housing. Any way to increase mobility of the housing residents is a big plus. In addition to this, possible extensions may be created to Metrorail (on 117th and not 107th......). Another point that needs to be addressed is where to put the rail yard? I think that the parking lot next to the stadium on the western end would be an ideal location. It is closer to the FPL Substation (and would be a power draw), and it would also be more than half-way to the Metrorail station if it is built on 117th. In addition, trains can come directly from next to the stadium to handle crowds following games.
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Post by Steve on Sept 21, 2006 16:03:08 GMT -5
As a Music Major, I am by no means a transit planner, but that is how I see the system on FIU's campus.
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Post by FIUFootballer on Sept 21, 2006 22:05:57 GMT -5
As a Music Major, I am by no means a transit planner, but that is how I see the system on FIU's campus. A music major? I think you've found a new calling...very nice idea.
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Post by FIUFanatic on Sept 24, 2006 11:08:19 GMT -5
Another story in The Herald about the workshops. Note: I don't have my mind made up as to what is beneficial to FIU and/or the system. I would hope they could come up with a mixture of ideas/inputs to better the original idea. www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/states/florida/counties/miami-dade/cities_neighborhoods/kendall/15590033.htmemail thisprint this SWEEthingyER FIU, Sweethingyer grapple over rail stopFlorida International University and the city of Sweethingyer officials are engaged in a battle of the titans over Miami-Dade Transit's proposal to expand Metrorail through Southwest 107th Avenue. BY JOSE CASSOLA jcassola@MiamiHerald.com In typical David vs. Goliath fashion, the city of Sweethingyer is going head-to-head against Florida International University over Miami-Dade Transit's proposal to expand the Metrorail through Southwest 107th Avenue. Transit officials held an east-west workshop Wednesday on the issue, which sparked a heated debate between the two entities. In one corner, FIU students and faculty supported the idea of Metrorail going down Southwest 107th Avenue along the eastern edge of FIU, which runs from Southwest Eighth to 24th streets. In the other corner, Sweethingyer residents and business owners opposed the idea and said they'd rather see Transit stick with the original plan, which would position the train between Southwest 117th Avenue and Florida's Turnpike, near the National Hurricane Center west of FIU and Tamiami Park. ''We are here to fight for our residents and, if they don't want this through their city, then we need to support them,'' Sweethingyer Mayor Manny Maroño said. ``We obviously see the need for mass transit in this area, but we need to work together to determine what is the best solution. Right now [with the 107th Avenue option], we see a lot more cons than pros.'' The 107th Avenue plan is to build one stop near FIU's engineering school in the northeast corner of the avenue and Flagler Street, and another near the east entrance to the main campus around Southwest 12th Street. Sweethingyer officials believe the city will suffer irreparable harm if the southbound leg of the east-west Metrorail expansion is built along 107th Avenue from State Road 836 to Southwest 12th Street. This is why the commission recently drafted a resolution requesting that they be involved in the decision-making process. The city suggested that Transit move forward with the 117th Avenue alternative or provide a smaller, more aesthetic light rail or trolley at or near street level instead of the bulky, elevated Metrorail. ''The effects to Sweethingyer will be huge if this goes through 107th Avenue,'' resident Mauricio Morales said. ``You are talking about placing a big rail in the middle of a small city that's going to make traffic there even worse than it is now.'' Indeed, Sweethingyer is a small city. Spanning less than a square mile, and home to nearly 15,000 residents and about 1,000 business owners, the idea of placing the rail smack in the middle of 107th Avenue, which runs through the heart of the city, does not sit well with residents and business owners. ''I can't imagine the chaos running a transit line and dividing a small neighborhood will do to that area,'' Fontainebleau resident Maria Harder said. ``Traffic now down 107th Avenue is a nightmare. Just imagine years from now if we go down this route.'' Other concerns raised by homeowners included lowered property values, business closures, the noise Metrorail would bring to nearby residential communities and the fear that Metrorail could tear up the city of Sweethingyer much like I-95 initially destroyed Overtown. ''That is exactly what we are afraid of,'' Vice Mayor Ariel Abelairas said. ``Building the rail at 107th Avenue will have a detrimental effect to the city. There is no need for that because there is another alternative.'' Supporters of the 107th Avenue option include many representatives of FIU, which has about 37,000 students and 1,100 full-time faculty between both the Biscayne Bay and University Park campuses. ''I feel this is a good thing for our university and the community as a whole,'' said Biology professor Philip Stoddard, a South Miami resident. ``Speaking as someone who lives walking distance from a train, I find this to be absolutely wonderful and convenient.'' Providence Okoye, a student majoring in international relations and student body vice president, believes building a rail down 107th Avenue will better serve FIU students and effectively connect the university with the rest of Miami-Dade County. ''We need to cater to the needs of the students at this university,'' Okoye said. ``Life is all about growth and growing together. South Florida has a huge population and we have to be able to move around. I see no other viable solution except this.'' FIU students and faculty believe the 117th Avenue alternative would force the university to dramatically expand its shuttle-bus service to get riders from the Metrorail stations. ''I think keeping this further west will benefit everyone,'' said Steven Williams, a music and education major at FIU. ``Otherwise, you are going to have an overflow of cars going into campus parking. There's no way the Metrorail parking garages will accommodate everyone and this creates a problem for FIU, where parking is already an issue.'' Transit officials will continue to hold workshops throughout the year, to consider more solutions. A proposal to build a station near International Mall and Dolphin Mall is under consideration, as well. ''The bottom line is we want to come up with a plan that best serves and satisfies everyone involved,'' said John Kulpa, a chief transportation planner with HNTB Corporation. ``We are not interested in imposing anything on the city of Sweethingyer that they find unacceptable.''
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Post by FIUFan on Sept 24, 2006 11:14:52 GMT -5
Thanks 'fanatic; looks like logic and reasoning are winning the day. p.s. Steve is becoming famous as a leading authority on the issue. ;D
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Post by Steve on Sept 24, 2006 21:48:07 GMT -5
That was me quoted in the article! HA
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Post by FIUBlue82 on Sept 25, 2006 16:19:31 GMT -5
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Post by Steve on Sept 25, 2006 19:04:11 GMT -5
I just read the dribble posted by the beacon... all the facts are wrong and it really annoyed me...
First, there was roughly 62 people at the meeting. there were 3 representatives from SGA, 1 from the beacon, 5 from the city commission from sweethingyer, 1 from the herald, a couple county commisioners, and about 4 planners from the consulting firm. The remainder of the people there were not only FIU students and faculty, but were from the surrounding area. Those at the meeting who identified themselves represented the Fontainbleu area north of Flagler, Several of the homes east of 107th both in sweethingyer as well as the areas to the south, residents of south miami, and several others who had just gotten off work. The article is very misleading as far as that is concerned. Additionally, I know of about 40 FIU students who are opposed to this project coming down 107th avenue. If I really pushed, I could easily get more. The FIU community itself is not as unified on its opinion as the writer says.
Next, there are some misquotes in the article, such as the one from the mayor of sweethingyer. The article makes him seem anti-FIU with the statement "We have to work together. FIU needs to partner with us and not be what it's been: the ugly stepchild across the street". I have no clue where the writer got this quote from since he said in reality "We need to work with FIU to find a solution that works in the best interests of both of us. Our community is not just the little ugly stepchild across the street". The City of Sweethingyer has worked with FIU in the past in the formulation of the City of Sweethingyer/FIU 107th avenue Transit Greenway Project. From how this artical is written, you would swear that FIU never talks to Sweethingyer and Sweethingyer hates FIU.
While talking about this supposed grudge as written in the article, the city commission passed an ordinance saying that the extension should follow the turnpike. In reality, that ordinance stated that the city wants some say in any transit or other governmental project passing through their city boundries. This was misquoted as well. Had this article been written in the Herald or treated as a feature on a news television show, the city officials would go insane protesting what was said.
As I read this article, I am reminded why I hate reading the Beacon. The poor research and misquoting really drive me away from wanting to read it.
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Post by Steve on Sept 25, 2006 19:38:39 GMT -5
Based on what one of the engineers from the consulting firm was telling me, this is essentially what the station would look like: In this latest of my endeavours with Microsoft Paint and Google Earth, the yellow represents the station and tracks. The two yellow boxes and one blue are future greek houses according to the campus master plan. The tracks may not eliminate them, but they do step on the property significantly. I still question, even after viewing the CADD drawings how the one in the blue box would be built... The Red boxes with lines in it represent parking that would be taken for construction of transit oriented parking structures. The green is the bus terminal and the "Kiss and ride" segment. The bus terminal would be relocated from its current location to something further into the campus because the station would be right on top of the current one. There was talk of putting it closer to the actual station platform as well (still within the red box of lost parking though). This represents some major problems for traffic on campus, parking on campus, security on campus. This is why I don't want the line to come down 107th. The people who I have talked to about this agree completely after this is put into perspective. I see the extension as something that looks great on paper, but in practice, its just not all that good.
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