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Post by FIUFan on Sept 26, 2006 8:18:16 GMT -5
Thanks Steve; I think you have to be even more accountable to what you write over here because people won't let you get away with crap. The more I see your rendering, the less I like the proposal to come down 107. Even if the station is built 'at the doorstep', it's still a heckuva walk to anywhere you may want to go on campus. As you point out, I think eventually there is going to have to be some kind of shuttle service from a station to all your points of interest. So why take up valuable real estate on campus and shoehorn all that infrastrucutre there?
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Post by Steve on Sept 26, 2006 9:12:58 GMT -5
thats actually a point that was made at the meetings that was conveniently left out of any arguments from the 107th supporters.... FIU would have to expand their circulator service to support the station even if it is on 107th. They create models of what the station's footprint would look like and then draw 1 mile radiuses off the station to determine if it is near to any traffic generator. Anything beyond roughly half of that, they consider the need for a circulator or bus route to support the station because people are less likely to walk a full mile. Under this model, a majority of the campus is outside that half-mile mark so they determined that a circulator would have to stop at the station, even if the station is on campus. This being the case, it would be much more adventageous to just eliminate the parking and trafffic problems and put it on 117th.
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Post by guest on Sept 26, 2006 9:44:28 GMT -5
The city of sweethingyer worked with FIU to create a "Transit Greenway" proposal that links the two campuses via a pedestrian friendly corridore. It includes not only pedestrian walkways, but also makes provisions for a light-rail or streetcar system linking the two campuses. I feel that this would better serve both sweethingyer as well as FIU. I mean imagine if we could get something that circled the campus in a loop and then went to the engineering center! FIU pays a quarter the cost, Sweethingyer pays a quarter the cost, FDOT pickes up the other half since it is a project that would better alleviate traffic on the busy 107th avenue. FIU gains not only a rail connection between campuses, but a circulator. Include the possibility of expanding it to the new metrorail station on 117th or 107th and you have the makings of a line that would generate some great income and be effective to both sweethingyer and the FIU community as a whole. I guess the summary is that the line going down 107 is not the best alternative. Let it go down 117 and then think of something different for 107th. There are much better, more feasable options out there. Do you know what a light rail system would entail and the greater amount of impact that it may cause to the community? A light rail system would require a dedicated right of way in each direction of travel (unless it just loops around on the same tracks). I will also require an overhead electrical supply system. With the Hurricanes that we experience down here I can see that tree lined pedestrian friendly street knocking down the system. So, who will this system serve? FIU and the City of Sweethingyer only???
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Post by FIUFan on Sept 26, 2006 10:24:10 GMT -5
...This being the case, it would be much more adventageous to just eliminate the parking and trafffic problems and put it on 117th. Not to mention the fact that the line (if built down 107) would bascially cut the city of Sweethingyer in half as well as more than likely dead-end at FIU . Also, I just realised, that you know what else is down the Turnpike near Kendall Dr. and 117th? Miami Dade Community College South and there 20,000 + students. I think there is good reason to have a station around the Turnpike and Kendall Dr., but that's for later.
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Post by Guest on Sept 26, 2006 10:59:43 GMT -5
now getting away from my objective point of view and getting into how a truly feel about this option..... I have read people say things such as "Ridership would improve because people would ride it from FIU's main campus to the engineering center and international mall" (Thats paraphrased). My biggest complaint about that argument is that the initial station planned was for 117th avenue where the dump is. This is a little less than 1/2 a mile from the dorms and the stadium. If people were unlikely to walk to that metrorail station, I really hate to say this but they are very unlikely to pay the money to ride metrorail and then walk the 1 mile from the proposed 107th avenue station to either of the malls. My point is that if they are unwilling to walk to a station less than a half a mile away, it is very unlikely they will walk to the malls. This is an unrealistic assumption. There would be ridership between the main campus and the engineering center, but that would be reliant on the expansion of the programs at that campus or the expansion of the overall facility there. At present, that campus does not warrent the construction of a multi-billion-dollar system for a couple hundred students. If that campus were as busy as the main campus, then it would definately warrent the construction of a line feeding that campus. I personally agree with the plan to put a light rail or streetcar system between the two campuses. Installing these systems is significantly cheaper than the heavy-rail alternative that is Metrorail. If the area were to work with FIU, Sweethingyer, Doral, and FDOT, then they could easily build a light rail line that feeds both campuses and even the malls, thus increasing connections between the two stations (117th and 107th avenues) as well as the campuses. I only hear talk about the line going from the Mall, FIU Engineering Campus and FIU Main Campus and the effect it will have on the City of Sweethingyer. You have to look as the proposed system as an intergral component of the overall Metrorail system. We have to look to the future, 10 - 20 years down the road. The congestion is bound to get worst and who knows how much gas prices will be. Remember fossil fuel is not a renewable resource. We have to plan for the future and how it will benefit the entire County. Here's a map of how the entire system could look like:
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Post by FIUFanatic on Sept 26, 2006 11:47:45 GMT -5
Thanks for that link and "map" of how the system could eventually look like. This "map" looks to me about what we should, at least, have to make this metrorail system look like right now. This is more "ambitious" or as real as I have heard before. This map of future metrorail is what we should have in Miami. It would connect both FIU campuses, Miami Dade North, close to Miami Dade South, the Airport, Miami Beach, the Seaport, Dolphins Stadium, the Orange Bowl, Homestead and Cutler Ridge, plus the ever importan area of population of West Kendall north to FIU and Sweethingyer. One line cutting accross LeJeune or thereabouts south also connects some of those neihborhoods.... Pretty nice stuff. Hope they could finish something like that before 2040
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Post by neiching on Sept 26, 2006 14:01:35 GMT -5
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Post by FIUFan on Sept 26, 2006 14:13:35 GMT -5
Yes, these maps clearly make much more sense to Miami-Dade county as a whole. Nowhere that I can see (other than perhaps the proposed MIC to US 1 line) does it cut through small neighborhoods. I think the tide has clearly turned against the 107 extension idea. Now let's start building.
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Post by guest on Sept 26, 2006 14:49:00 GMT -5
Whoa! Hold your horses, I think the jury is still out on the 107th Avenue alignment. www.miamidade.gov/transit/library/pdfs/corridor/ew/ew_route_alignment_map.pdfThe 107th Avenue alignment offers benefits that the 117th Avenue alignment doesn't, such as it provides service to the City of Sweethingyer. The 117th Ave alignment bypass the City altogether. It being down the middle of Sweethingyer will provide access to the entire community (within 0.5 mile walking distance to the station at FIU Engineering Campus). It provides direct connectivity to both campuses. If people (students) use the system to get to and from school it will alleviate the parking situation on campus. If the area around the station redevelops it may create a place where the entire community could gather. This is ofcourse not to say that there are challenges that must be overcome to build it down 107th Ave or 117th Avenue. Building it along the Turnpike will make it harder for pedestrian to access the station. There is no exit off the Turnpike at Coral Way where the station would be closes to. SW 117th Avenue is a two-lane two way street that will not be able to accomodate the increased traffic to the station. The Turnpike is planning on widening and will reduce the amount of available space to build the elevated tracts.
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Post by fiurulez on Sept 26, 2006 15:19:49 GMT -5
First off, I'm sorry. I promised to not post in this particular thread again, but it has become to compelling. I hear a lot about Sweethingyer being cut in half. It is already cut in half by 107th. East of 107th has doorbells and west does not (little Sweethingyer joke.) Does it suck to live next to a rail? Probably. Is it convenient for traveling? He!! yeah. FIUfan mentions the dead end scenario. Although you clearly make sense, it may not be a dead end. Who is to say they don't use the same method to continue down 107th from FIU to MDC that they use from the 836 to FIU. He also mentions the rail extending to Kendall, that would be nice too. However, Kendall already has a piece of the line (at least Dadeland is out there.) I would like to concentrate on areas that have no access whatsoever. I don't mean to point you out fan (this time =)) but you bring up valid points. The light rail system that's being talked about, wouldn't get stuck in 107th traffic? Isn't 107th closer to the center of FIU than 117th (legitimate question, I don't know.) I'm no longer saying 107th is the best solution. I am saying that it seems like the most viable one (to me). I already wrote to the mayor of Sweethingyer and kindly pleaded with him to support the rail going down 107th. I also pointed out that I represent 6 registered voters. Either way, FIU is screwed, but unless I'm wrong, FIU wants to get screwed in the front. Steve, thanks for clearing up the quotes, now I know how crappy the beacon is. The stepchild thing the mayor said (in the beacon version) pissed me off.
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Post by FIUFan on Sept 26, 2006 15:41:48 GMT -5
Whoa! Hold your horses, I think the jury is still out on the 107th Avenue alignment. www.miamidade.gov/transit/library/pdfs/corridor/ew/ew_route_alignment_map.pdfThe 107th Avenue alignment offers benefits that the 117th Avenue alignment doesn't, such as it provides service to the City of Sweethingyer. The 117th Ave alignment bypass the City altogether. It being down the middle of Sweethingyer will provide access to the entire community (within 0.5 mile walking distance to the station at FIU Engineering Campus). It provides direct connectivity to both campuses. If people (students) use the system to get to and from school it will alleviate the parking situation on campus. If the area around the station redevelops it may create a place where the entire community could gather. This is ofcourse not to say that there are challenges that must be overcome to build it down 107th Ave or 117th Avenue. Building it along the Turnpike will make it harder for pedestrian to access the station. There is no exit off the Turnpike at Coral Way where the station would be closes to. SW 117th Avenue is a two-lane two way street that will not be able to accomodate the increased traffic to the station. The Turnpike is planning on widening and will reduce the amount of available space to build the elevated tracts. Are you the first 'guest' or a new 'guest'. LOL. To address you points; If you look at the proposed maps, the city of Sweethingyer would be served by both the station at 107th and the 836 as well as the station at FIU. And you say that it will provide access to the entire community who live within 1/2 a mile of the Engineering campus. Well as far as I can tell, there isn't a whole lot of density near the FIU Engineering campus (i.e. I'm sure a very small % of Sweethingyer's population lives close enough to walk). Most people who take the Metrorail (as far as I can tell) park and ride. I agree that if students use the system it will alleviate parking problems on campus, but don't you agree that a shuttle will be necessary whether the station is built on the east side or the west side of campus? Again, Greater Miami was never built with the pedestrian in mind, we are simply too spread out to ever think that pedestrian traffic will ever be a key issue in placing a station. Stations, imo, must be placed at points of interest with parking garages. Finally, as far as an exit off of the Turnpike at Coral Way is concerned; I would assume that studies would need to be done to see if it is worth the money to have an exit there. They may just go to a more convenient stop at the Malls or at 107 and the 836 (and in the future at Kendall and the Turnpike). Initially, most people using the system will be coming from the east part of the county anyways.
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Post by FIUFan on Sept 26, 2006 15:55:39 GMT -5
First off, I'm sorry. I promised to not post in this particular thread again, but it has become to compelling. I hear a lot about Sweethingyer being cut in half. It is already cut in half by 107th. East of 107th has doorbells and west does not (little Sweethingyer joke.) Does it suck to live next to a rail? Probably. Is it convenient for traveling? He!! yeah. FIUfan mentions the dead end scenario. Although you clearly make sense, it may not be a dead end. Who is to say they don't use the same method to continue down 107th from FIU to MDC that they use from the 836 to FIU. He also mentions the rail extending to Kendall, that would be nice too. However, Kendall already has a piece of the line (at least Dadeland is out there.) I would like to concentrate on areas that have no access whatsoever. I don't mean to point you out fan (this time =)) but you bring up valid points. The light rail system that's being talked about, wouldn't get stuck in 107th traffic? Isn't 107th closer to the center of FIU than 117th (legitimate question, I don't know.) I'm no longer saying 107th is the best solution. I am saying that it seems like the most viable one (to me). I already wrote to the mayor of Sweethingyer and kindly pleaded with him to support the rail going down 107th. I also pointed out that I represent 6 registered voters. Either way, FIU is screwed, but unless I'm wrong, FIU wants to get screwed in the front. Steve, thanks for clearing up the quotes, now I know how crappy the beacon is. The stepchild thing the mayor said (in the beacon version) pissed me off. Hey 'rulez, good to have you back, no hard feelings here. If you read my previous post, I just don't think a whole lot of people will be able to take advantage of the 'walking' solution. I also, am no proponent (as of now) of light rail; just seems too complicated to me. I think that Sweethingyer can be a nice little community going forward, I just don't see the college town happening. That canal and 8th street are just too dominant to overcome in my opinion. Finally, I also don't see the line going down 107 to MDC. There are too many small communities on Coral Way, Bird Rd., Miller Dr., Sunset and Kendall Dr. for that ever to happen. The Turnpike has major 'commercial' infrastructure at the crossing of each of those roads just mentioned that I'm sure would appreciate the increased traffic this would bring. But when people go home on the weekend, the last thing they want to see (and hear) are Metrorail cars whizzing by.
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Post by Steve on Sept 26, 2006 17:01:37 GMT -5
Ok there are several things that need to be answered here...
1) Light Rail- one of the guests commenting on this thread (sorry, I would use you tag or naem if you included one) made a pretty good point about light rail. In that type of light rail, it is too much for just sweethingyer and FIU. There are streetcar systems that do not need to use a dedicated right of way and instead run on the road. such systems exist in portland oregon and are planned for Downtown Miami. The do run off overhead cantary systems, but can run on gas. The electrical system would be more prefferred for a campus environment. As you mentioned, they are reliant on an overhead wire for this sort of system, but the technology has improved to the point that the system can operate on one wire alone and not the multiple wires that were needed in the past. One wire can be replaced quick and easily following storms as well.
2) Proposed future system map- This is exactly what we need to consider when we pick our alignment. In speaking with the consultant, they began looking into the right-of-way aquisition costs for extending the line down 107th and through sweethingyer, there are even problems with that. Beyond that, the consultant told me that it would essentially remove the trains ability to economically run down to the kendall area. This would make FIU the end of the line station and would mean more cars would be parking there, making FIU's parking situation even worse than it already is. There are several projects that will bring transit out to the community more and it is really an exciting time to be in this city and have a chance to participate in it. One such plan not listed yet is the one to expand Tri-Rail south to Kendall and as far west as 137th avenue. This new extension could eb operational as soon as one to two years from now. The line would follow the CSX tracks next to the airport and then south...
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Post by Steve on Sept 26, 2006 22:58:33 GMT -5
Ok, here are the options outlined in the Sweethingyer/FIU 107th avenue transit greenway study and my interpretation of what it could be: Under this, if you follow the green route, the route would be approximately 1 mile in length before adding a circulator on campus. Streetcar systems cost a total of roughly $25 million per mile. This puts the construction costs at $25 million for the total project without the on campus loop. The study assigns dedicated right-of-way, but it is not really needed since streetcars can run in traffic. If they run on their own right-of-ways, it improves efficiency and the ability to stick to a schedule. The blue alignment is a total of 2 miles in length, but does not include the loop on campus. And would cost roughly $50 million to build, but covers a greater area than the green alignment would cover. If the loop on campus were created, then it would provide an additional 2 miles to the system. This would bring the cost for the system up for $75 million for the full green alignment (including the FIU loop) and $100 million for the blue alignment (including the FIU loop). Since 107th avenue is part of an FDOT project for traffic reduction speciffically in this area, it could be possible to pick up state funding for this type of project. When that is combined with the Sweethingyer portion of the money from the sales tax, funding is a deffinate possibility. Based on the typical cost distribution I have seen for other projects, FDOT generally picks up 1/2 the cost of the construction (between $37.5 million and $50 million depending on the alignment) and if FIU and Sweethingyer were to spit the remainder of the construction costs, we would look at both enteties (FIU and Sweethingyer) needing to commit roughly $18,750,000 each. While this is a pretty sizeable chunk of money, it could more than pay for itself over time. Also, for a comparison between streetcar and light rail, check out this 1 page pdf file put out by the city of tuscon: www.tucsontransitstudy.com/pdf/modsc_vs_ltrail.pdf
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Post by Guest on Sept 27, 2006 13:11:30 GMT -5
Here is Alternative IV from the 107th AVENUE PEDESTRIAN TRANSIT GREENWAYS CORRIDOR AT CITY OF SWEEthingyERThis alternative is a light rail and pedestrian paths combination of the previous three alternatives; and it may be built on stages. The first stage is similar to Alternative 1, a light rail system loop with origin and destination point at FIU University Park campus. The FIU station would be the only elevated station in this stage. The tracks would follow the eastern side of SW 109th Avenue to SW 5th Street, then turn east on SW 5th street until reaching SW 107th avenue. The light rail track would then veer north on the west side of SW 107th Avenue and proceed until it reaches W Flagler Street. At that location, the approximate half point of the system, the tracks would turn left on the south side of W Flagler and proceed west to SW 109th Avenue, where they would turn left and head south on the east side of SW 109th Avenue. The tracks would begin their ascendancy at SW 6th Street and cross SW 8th Street at an approximate height of 25 feet. This stage incorporates a designated pedestrian path. The second stage will include tracks crossing SW 107th Avenue at SW 4th Street intersection then turning left on the west side of the arterial. The tracks would then proceed north to SW 2nd street, turn right just before the shopping plaza, and then proceed east to the elementary school playground. The facility would then veer left at the playground and rise slowly to cross W Flagler on a 25 feet overpass. The trip would end at the Engineering campus elevated station, from which the vehicles would depart back to reconnect with stage 1at the west side of the SW 107th Avenue and SW 4th Street intersection. And here are the typical section for this alternative: This alternative does not leave any room for parking, especially on SW 107th Avenue where all the commerce is located. This will impact the businesses substantially, unless everyone is walking everywhere. I also see that the tracks will have to be elevated to cross Flagler and SW 8th Street.
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